Hamas capture priceless Palestinian Authority intelligence archives in Gaza putsch

they have a door inside all of our intelligence agencies' software all they had to do was flip a switch.

One intelligence expert said that the Gaza hoard left in enemy hands by Abbas and Mohammed Dahlan are the crown jewels compared with the Saddam Hussein's intelligence archives.

Whats your Intel background Synthesis ?

At this point, theyre at least as legitimate as the background possessed by "one intelligence expert". LOL.

I never thought I would see the day debka was questioned for integrity here.

they have a door inside all of our intelligence agencies' software all they had to do was flip a switch.

No, they don't have anything of the sort. What they have is a twist of the false flag ploy to make it look like they work hand in glove with the intelligence agencies of "the enemy." Next they'll have reports on CIA and Mossad stationary.

it is no secret Western intelligence agencies were very active in Gaza helping Fatah.

twist of the false flag ploy to make it look like they work hand in glove with the intelligence agencies of "the enemy."

No twisting needed They DID see I wrote did in the past tense, because they are no more. They will fall on the west bank soon too, and Israel will have a Radical Islamist state the has vowed its destruction on its very border. The US and MI6 will be able to do very little to help Israel now, Mossad are on there own, and that will hurt Israels inteligence gathering capability a lot.

I'll check the "Hamas-gate documents" for you when they come out to see if they are on Mossad stationary, my guess is they will have JINSA stationary :)

Well, if that's the case:

I believe this is a plot set up by the US and Israel in order to support the lesser evil partner (Fatah):

Either you are incredibly stupid or the U.S.A. and Israel are incredibly stupid, because Hamas won Gaza.

Personally, I'm rooting for the secular nationalists among both Arabs and Jews to gain full control of their respective polities. That would be Fatah in the case of the Palestinians and a coalition from Shinumi to the left in Israel.

Thus, if the plot you posit exists and it works (note, there's an "and" there), that would be progress.

Either you are incredibly stupid or the U.S.A. and Israel are incredibly stupid...

All of these options are still totally in play.

I'm just sayin', spooky, that if the idea is to privilege Fatah over Hamas (a reasonable policy goal in my view, as I suggest) then getting Hamas to start a civil war that Hamas then wins is a pretty stupid idea not to mention a bad gamble.

Keld:

I'm not sure why you think the Bush Administration would be able to influence Hamas to start a civil war.

Do you presume some failed rope-a-dope strategy?

Keld:

Well, perhaps not a civil war, but they definitely wanted/hoped to weaken Hamas by unilaterally supporting the Fatah party.

But how?

Hamas got stronger and then used that strength to confront Fatah and then carry that confrontation to victory.

Whatever the speculations about this or that byzantine strategy by Bush or Israel, the unambiguous facts on the ground are that Hamas set an objective, employed tactics to achieve it, then successfully achieved their objective.

Is there a reason I should reject the evidence of my own lying eyes in favor of an explanation that requires about four levels of planning and reversal and hidden aganda?

[T]o re-unite in order to defeat the Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories. That must be the main goal.

Sez who? You? Obviously not Hamas because what they just did directly contradicts that goal. If they wanted unity, there'd be unity. There isn't. Therefore, they don't want it.

Why does it have to be Utopia?

Secular nationalist movements willing to adopt the incrementalist approach among subject people not only can win, they frequently do win.

And if it is impossibly Uptopian, then humane concern for the people whom you would defend and support requires some other strategy by their leaders. Not the Americans, not the Jews. The Palestinian leaders.

What would you have them do?

I never thought I would see the day debka was questioned for integrity here.

you are kidding are you not, this is debka like Jinsa are you doubting your own media now ? do you really understand what you are saying or are you just holding out for AP to put out the candy floss happily ever after version to make you feel better. ?

This is DEBKA Sythesis !

You don't need an intelligence background, just commonsense, to know that this is mostly, if not entirely, overblown. We're expected to believe that these archival files will reveal secret relationships, networks of spies among all these agencies and govts. Baloney.

...names of spies, political collaborators and double agents. The documentation covers the secret ties Palestinian intelligence maintained from the 1970s, when Yasser Arafat was based in Lebanon, with the Americans, the British, the French, the Israelis and many others.

a lot of good all this spying and double dealing did for peace in the ME, right? Maybe Arafat worked for the Israelis? There might be some historically interesting tidbits here...some discussion between leaders, and other talk that amounted to nothing for the last decades. I'm more concerned with all the weaponry they captured, much of it, American, used to help the PA against Hamas. The other stuff is much ado about nothing.

This is DEBKA Sythesis !

who cares? Debka has been notoriously wrong on many occasions. And the PA and PLO has had all this info on

...a store of national secrets and compromising information to hold over the heads of Western leaders and officials, lists of undercover agents, and records of covert operations carried out by the Israeli Mossad, Shin Bet and Military Intelligence, CIA, British MI6 and other Western agencies.

in their possession for decades?

Pile of steaming bullcarp.

HA HA look at this they obviously have got something Ha HA HA US tells Abbas sanctions will be lifted

From correspondents in Ramallah

June 16, 2007 08:55pm
Article from: Reuters

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An American envoy told Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas during a meeting today that the US will lift a ban on direct aid to the emergency government he is forming following Hamas's takeover of the Gaza Strip, a senior Palestinian official said.

"Abbas was informed the American administration will immediately lift the sanctions once the emergency government is announced," a senior Palestinian official said as Mr Abbas met in the West Bank city of Ramallah with US Consul-General Jacob Walles.

I don't care if its Debka, CNN, Voice of America or Al Arabiya.

Whenever someone quotes 'unnamed sources', I reserve judgement big time, and so does anyone else who's responsible.

And for that matter, how do you know what 'my media' is? I think you're making some assumptions that you probably have no basis in fact for.

Lastly, you've not answered my question. Exactly what kind of access to "all of our intelligence agencies' software" does Hamas now have? Which agencies, which applications and networks, and which databases, specifically, and how do you know this?

"...unnamed sources..." eh? Who's Debka anyway? (yeah, yeah, I'll do some research but, come on, throw me a bone here. I'm a busy guy.)

I really feel sorry for you Yank Sythesis. I dont know what or where you get your news from but We have watched the event live, the BBC had a Camera on the Spot. Its all on film, I was wondering what they were doing, The reporter said "Looting" but that was clearly untrue. They were removing very specific things from those Offices, and Fatah in the west bank has confirmed the Story, and given an explanation of why, promised support from Israel did not come, so none of the Information was destroyed. The Bush team are in "Crisis Mode" General Jacob Walles has flown in to try to, well I presume buy back the stuff, but Hamas are not Americans, and money will not be enough they will want more, land, security Guarantee's and other such things.

I know it must be hard for you guys to take that little Hamas with all its sanctions has now got the USA over a barrel. As for Israel the next twenty years, if it lasts that long, are going to be a lot harder, and if Israel thinks they can appoint that war criminal Pervertez as PM, the rockets will keep coming and they will strike deeper into Israel making it unsafe for tourists children and Israelis in general. Work patterns will be in tatters as three or four times a day every one will have to stop work and scuttle off to the Shelters. Israel will now be Powerless to strike back, for fear of losing US UK support, because If Israel starts shooting up Gaza, the information will be released and Israel willo be made to look like the Filthy Apartheid Nazi Facsists they are, and without world support, ie all that foreign aid Israel is finished and who will give Aid and Comfort to an outlawed Apartheid regime like Israel.

Why should we? Isn't it their sovereign right to blow each other up? /End facetious

The Bush administration has been attempting to broker peace for the last six years. Hardly "without the slightest effort."

I am guessing some of the Mossad files they have date back to the 6 Day War up through the present and identify the politicians and others in Arab countries who have access to important information. As for the CIA, since we paid Black September not to kill any of our operatives after they came on the scene with the Munich attack I'm guessing that is in our files plus other similar deals with Palestinian extremist groups and other terrorist organizations around the Middle East. I figure MI6 and France's files are similar to our's. This won't kill us, but it might kill some of our sources in place or at least burn them when they have to flee from their government. We can build this back up... it will just be costly and annoying to have to reconstitute a spy network, especially in the Middle East where everyone is duplicitous and always playing both sides.

If they were a pro, they'd be nowhere near this conversation.

Keld, surely you know what comprises an act of war or casus belli. When Syria started bombarding the north of Israel from the Golan Heights, that was an act of war. When Egypt shut the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, that was an act of war. Since these two things are documented and happened before the air raid, it's clear that Israel had a logical pretext to launch their attack. Closing the Straits of Tiran shut Israel off from its only source of oil, Iran. This would have eventually crippled Israel if it had waited to fight until a time of Nasser and his allies' choosing. What would you have the Israelis do? Sit around in bomb shelters while artillery rains down on their heads and wait until their military machines are rendered useless by a lack of oil? That is begging to be killed, essentially.

Also there is the issue of the air raid itself. Why was it pre-emptive and why did it have to be launched? Israel had 200 aircraft and the Arab allies had around 800... 400% more. 450 were Egyptian aircraft built by the Soviet Union that were rather new. When you are outnumbered 4 to 1 and your enemies have already conducted one or more hostile acts (or acts of war) against you, it is impossible to maintain military supremacy without the element of surprise. Israel managed to keep their air superiority by launching a surprise attack and destroying around 80% of the Arabs' aircraft while they were on the ground. This is air superiority they would desperately need when they had to eject the Syrians from the Golan Heights as the heights tower 3,000 feet over the Galilee making it nearly impossible to assail artillery without close air support.

So, I ask you in all candor... what would you have them do? Stay there and wait to die? What would you want Denmark to do if similarly surrounded and attacked? Then again it seems as though you wouldn't be disturbed by the notion of Israel being disappeared by her Arab neighbors.

Besides, if you can't win a war when you outnumber your opponent so heavily, you don't deserve your opponent's land.

Perhaps not very much, since Israel stole the land from the Arabs in 1948, as Ben-Gurion once so rightly acknowledged:

I'm pretty sure you can read that quote a million times and never realize he did not acknowledge what you allege. Read it a million and one times (or better yet learn the history of the alleged quote) and see if you can get a different interpretation out of it.

It was the Palestinians' misfortune that their Arab brothers found it more convenient to force them to live in refugee camps and refuse them citizenship so they could wield them as a sword against the Israelis whilst sharpening the blade on the grindstone of poverty, religious fanaticism and misplaced hate. If the Palestinians want to blame someone, let it be their Arab allies for they are the people that stopped the buying of Palestine with money by attacking Israel and inserting violence into the equation, losing three straight wars and then forcing the Palestinians to shoulder the consequences that losers of wars inevitably face.