From the Lebanese People to the So Called "Civilized" West: Thank You!

these are women and children Filip. isn't it disgusting how the israelis are targeting civilians. they can't crush hezbollah so they will kill as many lebanese civilians to put pressure on the hezbollah. the world can see that these are crimes in old, new any testament or revelation. the entire world calls for cease fire but the US stands in the way. the deaths of those children in Qana are at the hands of the israelis and the US, Condi and King George.

isn't it disgusting how the israelis are targeting civilians.

this is what is wrong with your thinking and why you are so enraged about the situation.

israel is not targeting civilians. they accidentally killed them. they didn't even know civilians were in the building which was in the warzone. i don't see how any sane person can think that they intentionally targeted civilians considering the fact that they gave civilians 3 weeks warning to evacuate the warzone AND the fact that hezbollah guerillas were firing rockets into israel from that building.

hezbollah killed those women and children, not israel.

Filipino, pretty sure it was Israel who dropped the bomb, as such, Israel is solely responsible for their deaths, period. Where would you have them go, all of Lebanon is a war zone and Israel has already bombed several civilian caravans that were fleeing the area.

So I guess the Lebanese are damned either way, stay and die or try to flee and die, way to go Israel, you are a mighty killing machine.

All of this over two kidnapped soldiers and a prisoner exchange, Israel would rather kill everything in their sights, than use diplomacy.

I will say this, tragic as those photos are, Hezbollah controls all media in southern Lebanon. They escort all foreign media, show them only what they want them see, and generally have the luxury of spinning the on-the-ground situation however they see fit.

Be wary of those who would pull on your emotions...

hey "the filipino"

could you change your screen name to "a filipino" -you're embarassing the rest of us.

hey "the filipino"

could you change your screen name to "a filipino" -you're embarassing the rest of us.

actually, i think your effete attitude towards foreign policy is an embarrassment to freedom loving liberal democracies throughout the world.

Filipino

hezbollah killed those women and children, not israel.

HAHAHA. That was funny.

Equally disgusting is the font they chose to use for the header.

HAHAHA. That was funny.

really? unfortunately i can't say the same about your trite sarcasm. please be more original next time.

isn't it disgusting how hezbollah disrespect their dead by photographing them and parading the photos across the internet as if it were some kind of carnival freakshow? have these people any morals? isn't it some kind of crime in the koran to do such things?

They want the world to understand.

Most Americans see thewar as one more thing on TV. Less interesting than american idol, more exciting than oprah.

Doron Barkat, 29, in Jerusalem, spends long nights trawling the web to try to swing the debate Israel's way. "When I see internet polls for or against Israel I send out a mailing list to vote for Israel," he said. "It can be that after 15 minutes there will be 400 votes for Israel.

"It's very satisfying. There are also forums where Lebanese and Israelis talk."

Doron Barkat does feel there are some obstacles for Israelis, before they can completely dominate the news groups and forums.

"There is this person calling himself Keld Bach in one of these forums", he says. "People like Keld is a real problem. The day after we have swung an entire forum towards our view, he will post an incredible amount of articles that oppose it, and they receive numerous votes and comments. Our only chance is to go for a character assassination, but people like this are usually good at detecting and deflecting such tactics."

Israel is currently discussing a resolution to channel funds into the newly opened Benign Research Institute Against Keld (BRAK), and similar proposals are being put forth in the American Congress.

"We like Keld", said a spokesman for the government under the condition of anonymity. "We just can't have him airing all this open criticism in defense of innocent civilians. Women and children get killed in wars, as our psy warriors repeatedly underlines in various forums on the Internet. It is just the nature of things, but people like Keld just won't accept that. We need to be free to wage war on our own terms, even if these are terms made by terrorist organizations, by Israel or by regimes in Tehran and Pyongyang against our wishes."

Uh-Oh, Keld! Competing viewpoints present well must mean Israeli cyber-soldiers. If that's what I'm to be classified as, does that make you a cyber-terrorist?

Gee, isn't war disgusting?

Sorry, my tone must've been less than I expected. I was speaking satirically, of course.

Though "vicious" definitely applies.

Hirstopher, please explain your justification for using these terms: "racist, criminal, vicious". Thanks.

I think he was just echoing some of Gideon's own terminology. Gideon sure seems to like using such terms.

I've noticed you take offense to questions of this sort, Keld. What makes you think you're qualified to judge my definition of "vicious"?

And you as well?

Hmmm, vicious.

Alright, here are a few Gideon Polya quotes: (and these are just from one comment)

horrendous actuality of the consequences of war criminal, Nazi-style Israeli state terrorism

cowardly, racist Bush-ite UK, Australian and Canadian Governments.

What lying, racist Mainstream media deliberately miss is that the Ultrazionist Israeli Establishment and the Bush Administration are deliberately killing civilians - notwithstanding the lying rhetoric and crocodile tears

used to justify continued, racist, war criminal occupation with the "benefits" for the US and Israel of hegemony/resources/OIL and lebensraum/ethnocratic genocide/water resources.

Naturally, emphasis added by yours truly.

Now, if I said "Israel is fighting against a violent, terrorist, Islamic supremacist, ethnocratic group that's deliberately targeting innocent women and children (having crap-ass aim and aiming generally at civilian centers counts) hellbent on the genocide and eradication of all Israelis" I don't think you'd be saying "I don't see 'vicious', where is it 'vicious'?!" You'd be saying "OMFG! Stop verbally beating up on the poor resistance fighters! Lies, I tell you! Can't you see the emotional-appeal photos?!"

But, that's hardly more "vehement" rhetoric than Gideon Polya is putting forth (with the added bonus of a publicly anti-Israel platform supporting my claim). Is that vicious? If it is, I don't see how even your logic can really say that Gideon's rhetoric is not vicious.

We all love underdogs, sure, but if we see a rottweiler fighting a chihuahua, we don't automatically see the rottweiler and a demonlike hellhound, fire and brimstone pouring from snout and maw.

Seriously, Keld. You're a caricature of your tagline.

Sure, let's also have every single one-sided contributor to Newsvine be silenced. After all, people who repeat themselves must be wrong, right?

You can't force other people to have positions that you agree with. If you disagree, how about debating the ideas persuasively, rather than insulting people. It tends to be more effective.

I have a lot of respect for you, Darkness, for coming out and saying what needed to be said here. As someone who is probably considered "pro-Israel", I felt I couldn't say it and have the right effect, but you did it perfectly.

Good on you.

rtl3, that was a dumb statement.

rtl3, are you seriously advocating that everyone on newsvine should think the same way and support hezbollah? seriously, because that's the most asinine thing i've ever read on this website.

rtl3, are you seriously advocating that everyone on newsvine should think the same way and support hezbollah? seriously, because that's the most asinine thing i've ever read on this website.

I have seen virtually no one support Hizbollah here -- close to zero posts. Just lots of people are juts outraged at the IDFs heavyhanded destruction in Lebanon. Most reasonable people are quick to add that Hiz are also heavily responsible.

My god does newsvine need an Ignore Filipino button.

I think the Filipino is right.

The point of Newsvine is to have discussion - if everyone agreed, then Newsvine would be a waste. You don't see a whole lot of intelligent discussion on Electronic Intifada (or the FOX news website), do you?

In my opinion, the Filipino is way down the list for people who should be ignored. At least he doesn't troll articles posting about how Jews think they are so much better than everyone else.

For the record, I have no contact, official or unofficial with the Israeli government or Mossad. ;-)

Nod, when you are attacked by forces with superior air and chopper capabilities what are you supposed to do, you fight any way you can. Israel has freely bombed Lebanon and the occupied terrorities without fear of any challenge due to their vastly superior weapons, yet they get upset when others have the audacity to challenge them with stealth tactics and draw them out into the open.

While I used to support Israel and their challenges, recent events have proven that they are nothing more than a bully, hell bent on punishing anyone within their reach just because. Let them build their wall per the original specifications and shut themselves off from the rest of the world, we are far better off without them as they want nothing more than to make war at every opportunity while crying to anyone who will listen about how they have been persecuted throughout time.

While I fully admit that the events that occured during WWII were horrible, Israel's actions since gaining statehood have been nothing but horrific and unworthy of global support. Maybe it's Israel that needs to be disarmed...?

Unbiased?

And the whole bit about 9/11 culminating in:

It selects only flattering images to support its campaign and delivers them as news.

Uhm... Keld, that to me is simply stupid and insulting.

BTW, just so you are aware, Hezbollah actually marches reporters in and guides them on their "unbiased" photography tours.

@Pamela

Photographs document events and serve as an unbiased reporter and record. They are important because we can each see the effects of an event and make a personal judgment rather than hear a reporters interpretation. As for the "parading" of terror photos across the internet, this is a media where viewers need to seek out the images. Contrast that with the American government's parade of 9/11 images which continues to suggest an enemy and American suffering year after year.

Of course if you see only images of children and women consecutively then you begin to feel that Israel only kills women and children. Most assuredly this is false. Where are all of the men in these pictures? Why do they show the same dead child on the "Angry Arab" site in three different locations? Is it to make us think there are more dead than there really are? Or is it to burn that image into our minds?

A picture is worth a thousand words, and I think Pamela, this is something you might want to consider when stating that photos have no bias.

Lets look at another example. The Bush backrub photos. If you show the image where the German Chancellor has her arms down while Bush is touching, there is no wrong here. Show the image of the German Chancellor with her hands up while Bush is touching and we assume she's upset. Which is true based on image alone?

I short, I find your statement false.

@Keld
Sarcasm - With source links like "Angry Arab" I would never in my life suspect bias... -/sarcasm

At least they don't prevent the reporters from documenting these war crimes; or attempt to censor the media.

You're right they don't. What they do is make sure that everything EXCEPT what they do is well documented to make them out to be a victim. Do you find it sad that Syria and Saudi Arabia make up Hezbollah which reside in Lebanon? Poor Lebanese... wait... not exactly, the UN resolution stated that Lebanon is responsible for the actions to and from its country, which does include Hezbollah. So why then does Lebanon not kick them out to keep their 'civilians' from dying? Is it a lack of governmental control? Or is it because the civilians hide Hezbollah, in which case if you hide the enemy you become the enemy and are liable?

I heard a Lebanese man on TV today say "Ask any 5 year old Lebanese kid who the terrorist is". He implied that anyone in Lebanon will tell you that Israel is the evil terrorist. All I thought was "okay, now ask any 5 year old Israeli kid who the terrorist is... no better yet, ask any 5 year old from either country to define terrorist in their own words".

My point is, people in these countries have it so engrained in their heads that what they are taught and the violence they commit is the ONLY way to do anything. I ask you KELD, at what age do devout Muslims begin to teach their children about their religion and what are the first and heaviest morals / scruples/ ethics and practices taught?

I guess.. I'm honestly interested in knowing why you think Hezbollah is right in their actions and what makes them so. I don't need to see links, websites, or testimony from someone else in relay... I want to understand your honest to God opinion.

Whatever you say, Keld.

They have one of the best armies in the world. Why are they dropping half-ton bombs on rug rats?

I've given this question much thought and my only answer is this:

ANSWER #1: If you are fighting a force that bears no markings (i.e. no uniform), you run the risk of killing even MORE innocent and having your own troops killed. Small arms fire is bloody and long and can turn over very quickly.

ANSWER #2: Because they aren't trying to TAKE the land away from them Lebanon and keep it, as an invasion generally implies. I feel that Israel understands that it is not Lebanon as a whole nation that is attacking them, which is why they aren't bombing major cities and political targets of Lebanese government. Actually, I haven't found a time recently where Israel has acted on a Target of Opportunity (TOO), only Targets of Necessity

Recently they've gone in and said they want to take over SOME land, and hold it until UN can get there so that Hezbollah can't get as close. This speaks loudly of a defensive stance on Israels part.

Lastly, I apologize if I came off a bit strong in defense through previous comments, I took your words as a challenge. Even I get hasty at times.